Working with Rails? Tell the world
Posted by David December 03, 2006 @ 05:50 PM
Working With Rails is an attempt to index all the developers around the world working with Rails. It offers a few ways to browse the index and while the authority and popularity lists are perhaps a tad silly, I love looking at the country list. 3 programmers in Peru, 1 in Kazakhstan, and 3 in Uzbekistan. How cool is that?
I’m from Guatemala, Central America. I work for the Guatemalan Government for an office in charge of providing minimum housing for poor people. My goal is to introduce my country to this amazing technology.
- Just say yes to Open Source ;) --Good luck buying books for this open source technology. Because there is no manual.
I am from Azerbaijan and have a few production site on rails.
@Mikey, what do you mean by that?
I think what Mikey’s saying is that there is no reliable source of information yet for learning Rails. Yes, there’s a manual/Rdoc thing, but to learn it comprehensively, you have to buy the book. On another note, what ever happened to that group who received donations for writing a better documentation for Rails?
I mean like Django Book. You cannot learn Rails from RDoc. It’s like learning to be chef just by reading a book of recipes. The rails doc group is working on a better RDoc.
To learn rails from the books, you must have the cash or you must steal it from the illegal copies on bittorrent and rapidshare.
I learn by reading 34 different blogs, as soon as a feature come out, I read every blog entry. My boss hate me. But I have 8 hourse per day to spend on reading blog. So no problem!
If you are poor in Azerbijan, your problem. Don’t cry about no manual. Open-Your-Wallet-Source LoL!
Please don’t discredit the hundreds of programmers who not only learned Rails without buying any books, but has gone on to contribute massively to the framework. Lest it comes as any surprise, Rails had lots of developers even before any books hit the scene. The first book wasn’t released until over a year after the framework appeared. So undoubtedly it’s perfectly possible to learn Rails without buying any books. But most new comers see no need. If you value your time at billable hours, then spending twenty-something bucks on a PDF probably shouldn’t account for more than 15 minutes to half an hour of billing. However, if you have more time than money, or simply like learning stuff on your own, there’s a massive amount of free writing available on Rails. Not only the API docs, but tutorials, screencasts, wiki pages, discussion groups, chat channels, open source Rails applications, the source itself, and more. Sitting with your arms folded demanding more, better, faster for nothing from others is a terrible way to win sympathy. It’s an excellent and fast-track approach to getting labeled an ungrateful, whining, spoiled brat with an acute entitlement disorder. Don’t be that guy.
Mikey- I don’t quite understand your point. True, the RDoc is a reference, not a learner’s guide. But every language/software has a similar dichotomy. You seem to suggest that an open-source product should also have free documentation, but I don’t agree with that. I’ve got 3 books on Ruby/Rails and have done pretty well for learning it.
I held the top spot under “Popularity” for just over a week until some joker named “Hansson” upstaged me.
I think this whole post was a conspiracy to help him take the top spot!
On one hand, DHH praises those people from the poor countries for embracing Rails. On the other hand, he damns them by insisting they pay for his book and by assuming that 20 bucks for them means 15 minutes of their billable work.
This strikes me as being a bit ironic. Some (most) of those programmers who are propagating Rails in the poorer countries are doing it out of the love for that technology. They are most likely volunteering their efforts to introduce the world to this marvelous product. Why should they be made to feel like a piece of shit and why should they be ostracized for asking if there’s a possibility we get a free Rails book? A la Django? Eh?
Obviously, it can be done, and brilliantly (look at Django). So why bark at those people? I don’t get it.
P.S. The Rails “bible” is a less than stellar effort, imo. Rails community deserves a much better book, and it should be free. PragDave comes across as too much of a twentieth century entrenched vendor lock-in programmer. Rails is better than that. Give us a more appropriate “Rails bible”!
Keep in mind, the Django creators are being paid to write the book. It seems that Apress is just cool enough to let them “open source” the book as well (much like the excellent Dive Into Python book).
All I know is that if there were a willing author for a free Rails bible, he/she sure would have a huge hit on their hands.
Where do you get the insistence that anybody needs to buy anything? I just gave you a laundry list of great resources that tons of programmers before you have used to learn the framework.
But let me repeat, in case your reading comprehension skills were overloaded again: You don’t need a book to learn Rails!
Having a book may well help you learn Rails faster. But it is by no means a required entry ticket.
And if the Agile Web Development with Rails book is such a terrible tome, why would you care to have it for free anyway?
Tell you what. Since you must obviously know what’s wrong, I recommend that you go ahead and write that fantastic book. Then give it away for free. If you actually do, if you can actually muster more than lukewarm air, I will eat my dismissal and personally salute you.
Aw yeah. DHH is back! Reminds me of days of yore when the pointed banter on this blog was almost entirely the point, instead of the negativity and whining that we all try to avert our eyes from lately. Seriously, where do you people come from! Time for a flower.
David, :) I’m not going to argue, I just want to tell you there are countries out there where twnty-something bucks could be 2-3 hours sallary (for a programmer)...
I own 4 ruby/rails books. Agile web Development (paperback), Rails Recipes (paperback), the Ruby Cookbook and Programming Ruby (PDF) for a grand total of roughly $165 with tax.
They were worth every penny. In fact, I would have happily paid more. When you buy a book to learn a language like Ruby (or any language/technology for that matter), it’s an investment in yourself that ends up paying out far more than the cost of a couple of books.
As far as people in poor countries who can’t as easily afford computer books, I would remind you that it’s not David’s responsibility to solve the world’s problems. Not to mention, 25 bucks for a PDF copy is more than a fair price.
Sorry, Django just an example. Why not make first rails book online like ruby book? Make it have comments like django book. Very good for teaching.
Rails like OSX. Beautiful, but for every version, you pay for the book. Framework free. Book has the cost. Romania, programmer make $550 per month. You want to spend 30 on book? what about room?
You can learn from free tutorial. No problem. Just ask question on IRC, read many blogs and have a notebook. Indian guy give free tutorial, but he is not make money.
I read on blog you can be a great chef by reading recipee book. Don’t whine write a book. Why don’t you? you silly person.
This time it is different. DHH calling people of his own community stupid. Before it was Java. Now ruby hahaha.
There are a few different efforts out there to improve/expand the API docs. I think it would be helpful for this site to pick one and back it, replace existing links, etc. Grease the path for hundreds/thousands of people out there to contribute
For example, I spent a good 20 minutes figuring out why :finder_sql didn’t properly insert the ID I used, only to locate some archived mailing list message saying I needed to use single instead of double quotes, to prevent ruby from immediately parsing the ”#{id}”
I’d like to note this in a centralized place so someone else (like this poor guy: http://lists.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/2006-August/060544.html)
can easily see how it works. But I can’t do this easily, and I don’t have the time or knowledge to start a new API site myself from scratch. So about my only option left is that which most Rails users seem to elect for: write a blog entry about it. Which then the next person needs to have the luck to find in a google search
The fight between people demanding better docs and the TANSTAAFL camp is overblown – no one has a “right” to better documentation, but it would be to the benefit of everyone if there was a centralized place to channel knowledge
Even just something like php.net’s setup would be a huge step up
DHH wrote:
“Where do you get the insistence that anybody needs to buy anything? I just gave you a laundry list of great resources that tons of programmers before you have used to learn the framework.”
I don’t recall anyone asking you for a laundry list. David, you’re beginning to sound like Microsoft—arrogant and haughty and ‘get used to it’.
If we were to push things to their extreme (natural?) limits, we could say that no one needs any documentation nor education in Rails. Just go into the Rails source code, study it, and it’ll become obvious, after a while.
So, all those whiny people who are asking for a better documentation are mere douche bags.
“But let me repeat, in case your reading comprehension skills were overloaded again: You don’t need a book to learn Rails!”
Here I agree. The source code is out there for everyone to examine. Nothing to see here, people, move along.
“Having a book may well help you learn Rails faster. But it is by no means a required entry ticket.”
Yeah, who needs to learn something faster?!? Take your time. Take a couple of years of sabbatical, print out the reams of source code, go to Acapulco, kick back, sunbathe and study the m**rfucker!
“And if the Agile Web Development with Rails book is such a terrible tome, why would you care to have it for free anyway?”
I didn’t say I’d care to have it for free. All I said is that I’d like someone who really understands the philosophy of Rails to write a book on how to maximize its benefits. And that book should (nay, must) be free.
“Tell you what. Since you must obviously know what’s wrong, I recommend that you go ahead and write that fantastic book. Then give it away for free. If you actually do, if you can actually muster more than lukewarm air, I will eat my dismissal and personally salute you.”
You intellectual rigor leaves a lot to be desired, David. Just because someone knows what’s wrong, doesn’t automatically imply that they know what’s right. For example, I know for a fact that having a leader like Hitler is wrong. But that doesn’t immediately mean that I know what kind of a leader is a right thing to have. The thing is, I really don’t know.
Believe me, if I were capable of writing that fantastic book, I’d do it. And it goes without saying that it would be a gift to mankind. How can your charge for something that brings liberation to the masses? I’m waxing religious here, but I hope you do get my drift.
However, my cognitive abilities are embarrassingly limited, and that’s why I’m looking up to people with more functional gray cells than I have to help us out. Hence the plea to please write a real Rails book. Somebody out there must be capable of doing that, instead of just writing yet another “Here’s How I’d Slavishly Rewrite This Big Ass Java App in Rails” book.
Can’t we arrange some punishment for mikey? For example writing his name with small letters?
“How can your [sic] charge for something that brings liberation to the masses?”
Yeah! How dare authors be able to make money off their work! How dare they be able to put a roof over their head and food on their table and clothes on their family’s bodies! How dare they! People writing “liberation” manifestoes simply must live like monks, just like in the old days! They should be begging for alms from their grateful, “liberated” public, not deigning to actually be self-sufficient!
For shame, professional authors! For shame!
Hi there, I followed this discussion and want to put my two cents. I live and work in Brazil, where the programmer is far from well paid. After working four years in Java, I begin to program in Ruby and Ruby on Rails, which was a great experience. I did the first-steps tutorials and some applications. The majority of questions was about the Ruby language, generally searching commands (“what’s the command for…”). Regarding Ruby on Rails, google worked just well. I was wondering if I had a good Rails book, my questions could be answered faster.
Well, my teammate bought the Agile Web Development with Rails, which I could use as well. After some months of work, it seems that the book confirm my ideas, propose “better ways” to do things, and clarify some pieces of framework, but do not indeed answer all that doubts that I have. There are so many tricks and so many ways do to things that I realize no book could have it all.
My conclusion is that you don’t really need a book of Rails, and the book wont answer the majority of questions. But it can be a plus, explaining the basics of Rails pieces and the right way to build a typical application. Still, it takes much less time to find something regarding Ruby on Rails on Google than in Java with my four books (and Google). Hope it helped and sorry my english.
“Peru, 1 in Kazakhstan, and 3 in Uzbekistan. How cool is that?”
I say it’s pretty cool.
Language, Japan. Framework, Holland and others. And what a great tool!
It is also a great community!
I have come a really long way from php mysql dev to where I am now because of Rails. I still learn every day and I can’t even believe how accessible so much is to me now because of my decision to learn Ruby and Rails.
I’m not waiting for a magic button to press that will make an app for me. I’m interested in languages and learning. And of course the speed of development.
I feel very lucky to have found Rails at such a young stage in its development more than a year ago. And because of the youth of the framework and its rapid success and intelligent users I have learned so much about web development in general.
I had never even heard about MVC before rails (obviously I used the pattern in my own development in php before Rails without ever knowing it). But I could never have managed the kind of clarity as in Rails on my own. OOP yes! But never like I can use it with Ruby. And TESTING and deployment with cap and all of the intelligent conventions. WOW! Rails has made me a better and more successful programmer.
Many more thanks from Germany! Although I see that Germany already has so many registered rails developers! And it is not as exotic and cool as Uzbekistan. But I thought I would voice my appreciation.
a thousand thanks.
I write my name with small m. hopefully it makes you happy sir.
i do not disrespect the person. I am pointing to something for improvement. rails is good. i like rails. why do I waste time here otherwise.
if you punish people for saying things you donot like, are you being authoritarian? maybe just my opinion.
should someone asking for a good book or manual have to write themselves, very nice! if they know to write the book, why they should complain there is no manual like PHP. don’t be offended. PHP manual and django book can be learned from. rail took MVC from smalltalk. no one is offended. take good things from other places and help each other.
everyone will have clothes and food for the family. no problem. helping ourselves makes us richer not poor. more people will learn rails, wich is a very good thing.
we will eat cake.
Dont want to stoke the flamewar, but does anyone have an idea about how the Django book came to fruition ?
Might give some pointers on how we can spend all that lurvely money that (correct me if im wrong) is waiting to be spent on documentation.
Having said that, I agree with “b” that no book can ever possbily cover all details.
@Mikey, there’s not much to do about the book being priced highly compared to Romanian wages. That’s the flip side of globalization. On the plus side, you can sell your work on eg. railsjob.com for perhaps $20-40/hour if you’re just somewhat skilled.
I’m actively using the site looking for competent Rails developers, and others have already made it a thriving business.
lol… I’m “in the top 98%” of this site. What does that mean? I’m not in the bottom 2% or what?
Geez, get some perspective people. DHH has given away arguably the best web framework ever written and you’re complaining that he didn’t write a free book too???
I for one say thanks DHH and the rest of the core team and I hope you guys make lots of money from your work, books and whatever else. I really appreciate what you’ve done. It’s changed my life as a programmer.
Same here johnpg
I am so sick of all those whiners complaining. Get a life, or write the free book yourself.
Rails kicks ass !!
Don’t feed the trolls
”..write the free book yourself.”
This is the side of open source that nobody likes. A good documentation fosters use and adoption. Right now, the Rails core is nothing but a tightly-knit clique of authors, programmers, and businessmen who promote Rails as the one-above-all solution. While DHH writes his dreamy poetry, everybody else is sleeping in the vault.
I Have been with ruby for past 3 months. Its very intresting and MOre agile than what it was promised. Great work Guys. Keep it up.
Thanks, sharma
I’m a undergraduate from Sri Lanka and I work with Rails on part-time basis. I don’t think if I waited until resources come to me I would never learn this fascinating framework. It’s the passion that brings out the best in you. If you could take the trouble to read the Source (I know it’s painstaking at first) and you will get the underlying concept. That makes the real difference of this breed of coders from the all those .Neters out there!
Remember as a Pragmatic Programmer you have to “Care about Your Craft”.
We are building the biggest Rails application in the world!
SPOCK is a VC-backed and very well funded startup founded by successful industry veterans who are seeking to bring one of the most compelling internet services ever to market. We are a cutting-edge consumer software / internet startup incubated and funded by Clearstone Venture Partners, a leading early stage VC firm in the consumer internet space (Overture, Paypal, Netzero, mp3, Internet Brands, etc.).
The company is building products for a very large worldwide market and promises to change the landscape of consumer software. The company focuses on personal search and is building a product that will become a part of our everyday lives, and will be used numerous times a day by the average user.
The company, currently in stealth mode, is located in the mid-Peninsula of the San Francisco Bay Area.
We are looking fore the best and the brightest: Web Developers, Information Retrieval Engineers, and Search Infrastructure engineers. If you are ready for a great opportunity—check us out at www.spock.com or email us at jobs@spock.com
ORLY? your choice of rails indicates that you don’t expect large scale adoption.
Good luck.
You know, the whiners around here sound a lot like some arm chair NFL experts I’ve watched football with… if they are so good, why aren’t they playing in the NFL?
If you “don’t get it” when using rails, why don’t you just move along. The rest of us will continue on using it because it’s the best tool for the job, and we get it without having to have our hands held all the time.
I started in with rails sometime before 1.0, and if I didn’t understand something, I could ask ont he mailing list, IRC, or even gasp read the code. In fact, I submitted several patches that got incorporated.
Comments like “same guy”’s above just display their ignorance of how this platform works. mikey sounds like a bunch of students I know that can’t figure out how arrays work and need their hands held just learning a basic language. Yes, you can learn from rdoc and code… well, many of us can… :)
The beauty of Rails to me is the fact that I had already been using some of the techniques in various places in my own style, but rails brings together many patterns and seals them all together in a beautifully DRY manner. If you have worked with these patterns before, then they are easily recognizable in rails.
If you are new to MVC, HTTP, javascript, redirects, validation routines, sql injection, CSS, Ruby, HTML, (this list goes on and on)... then it may be difficult because there are so many disciplines and patterns involved, and rails kinda assumes that you know the basics. Not trying to be insulting here, but many complaints seem to come from that quadrant.
Sure it would be great if someone wrote an online book or something to help this demographic… any have the time? I don’t. But whining and attacking rails isn’t going to help, and it certainly isn’t going to stop us from using or developing it!
the site seems pretty stupid. authority and popularity lists ???
10 Months ago I had no idea of
I learned all this and more since then using a free framework and 4 books for about 120 bucks.
I’m about releasing my first real rails-application and it certainly lacks in coding-style & elegance and testing but is about the best i’ve ever written before.
I can see Rails lacking on docs but nothing would have kept me from learning Rails just after the first few hours i spent with it.
DHH & rails-core-team: Keep up your good work! It’s inspiring!
How about a little song.. .. since we are all rock stars here right ?
Now look at them coders thats the way you do it You play the rails on the M.A.C That aint workin thats the way you do it Framework for nothin and speed for free Now that aint workin thats the way you do it Lemme tell ya them guys aint dumb Maybe get a blister on your middle finger Maybe get a blister on your space bar thumb
We gotta buy knowledge docs Custom learning deliveries We gotta download these screencasts We gotta download these colour pdfs
Now that aint workin thats the way you do it You play the rails on the M.A.C That aint workin thats the way you do it Framework for nothin and your speed for free Money for coding and joy for free